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MangyForestCat posted an update in the group
Advanced Modeler – Modeling Competition 2017 6 years, 1 month ago @syd Why is there a “racial purity test” for this competition?
I do not understand at all the decision made to have this mixed messaging of what kits we are and are not allowed to use and whether they came from HLJ.com or not.
If your intention was to create a completely closed ecosystem where no kits, but those bought from HLJ.com, would be eligible then obviously it is within your rights to do so. In that case why even bother with the description in the Advanced Category that it can be “a kit completely scratch-built, even a creation all your own that has never been seen before.”
You know that from a logical perspective that those two things are mutually exclusive and cannot be true at the same time.
You cannot BOTH
A) Have a kit that you bought from HLJ.com or has been available to purchase from HLJ.com
AND
B) Make “a kit completely scratch-built, even a creation all your own that has never been seen before.”
Those two are completely and utterly incompatible with each other. If you completely scratch-build a kit then it has obviously never been available for sale at HLJ.com. On top of which how do you judge this nonsensical little gem “the main part of your entry [has to] be an item that is, or was at one point, available for sale on hlj.com”? A completely scratch built, one-of-a-kind model, made at home from personally molded plastic/resin/vinyl/carbon-fiber, isn’t a kit that was once available from HLJ. On top of that, since it won’t have a “main part” to claim is from your website, how would you even possibly begin to categorize whether it’s eligible to partcipate?
Honestly, I’ve studied with friends that have done computer programming and friends that have gone to law school. From a purely logical standpoint. This is terrible logic programming and makes no sense whatsoever.
I bet this all went down a little something like this.
Your boss Scott and everyone involved had a big discussion and, after a long examination and debate over 2013/2014, you decided to go a different direction and be more closed off, stifling, and restrictive with this year’s rules. Seeing all of this attention drawn to scratch built kits and items you do not sell on HLJ.com, you all came to the conclusion was not good for your business. You decided to make it more promotional in nature so that people would be more interested in using materials, building, and buying from HLJ.
I get that. I completely understand that you want to draw attention to your company and this is all just one big promotion scheme. I’m not against that.
What I am against is unclear rules and stifling creativity.
Why not just be extremely clear, unrelenting, and Draconian with the rules? Why not just outright and flat-out state that we had to buy and a use a kit directly from HLJ.com? Why keep the colorful language in the Advanced Category saying you can completely scratch build a kit, when obviously that would, by any measure of logic, go against the idea that it’s from HLJ.com, or has at one time been sold there? You want to have it both ways and honestly your rules are not even close to allowing that to be true.
And finally, why not just be more honest and open about this with EVERYONE? Why not just flat out tell everyone the reasons why you have different rules this year? Why have all this colorful, meandering, fuzzy, language around what is an isn’t allowed?
Just be honest. You examined the 2013/2014 competition. You realized people weren’t necessarily using HLJ kits and materials. You didn’t really appreciate the true scratch-built and models from companies you don’t sell from. You decided to do this competition and be more restrictive with the rules and regulations. You decided to stifle people’s choices and imaginations in order to promote your shop.
I hold none of that against you. You are a business. However, as I already mentioned, what I do hold against you is this unclear and rather ridiculous stance you have taken. It’s obvious you just did a “Copy & Paste” of the old competition rules and category descriptions but you added in the “racial purity test” to make sure the kits come from HLJ. However you failed to notice that the rules from 2013/2014 do not mesh well with the ADDED “racial purity test” of 2017.
Why not just extremely clear about this?
* For reference to everyone this is the link to 2013/2014’s competition.
http://hlj.com/Playing-With-Plamo-Modeling-Competition-2013#howto** This is the link to 2017’s competition
http://hlj.com/plamo-2017#howto
Activity
Advanced Modeler – Modeling Competition 2017
why not just message syd directly instead of posting this in all 3 competition pages?
I don’t know why you think I haven’t. Like it has occurred to you but it hasn’t to me. I did that previous to my posting this on the 3 main pages. I decided that it should be public knowledge and show the inconsistencies to all.
You can also email questions like this to questions@hlj.com
I think most of what you said is correct semantically, but I think you are reading too much into it. They have set up restrictions to ensure that the contest is aimed for their clients and as you said this is ok. They have also realized that these restrictions, are in effect, restrictive for the advanced category so they added a clause to allow scratch-building, so to speak. It doesn’t change the fact that we are still their clients and hence the competition is meant for us. If anything, it shows that, if you have the skills to scratch-build, you do not necessarily have to enter something bought from them or enter an item that they sell in this particular case. Their is nothing racial about it!
To conclude, maybe they could have phrased things a little more clearly, but I think you are being overly severe and nitpicking a tad too much.
Personally, and I have already mentioned this, my only gripe is that I wished they announced the the entry date a month in order to give us time to think and prepare our projects. Other than this I am fine with and grateful to HLJ for promoting this competition and giving us the chance to help and encourage each other. I do not know about you, but I learn so much from observing my friends here as they build their projects!
When I said “racial purity test” it’s an analogy to what is generally regarded to be a negative thing. If you can’t understand simple abstract thinking then I really can’t help you, but I know you understand me. I think your comment and one other from another member in the Advanced Category actually understands what I’m talking about.
Anyway, I am a loyal customer of HLJ and I have spent hundreds of dollars at the store. I also still have my prize which I haven’t yet built from 3 years ago from the last competition. I am arguing against what I believe to be completely unnecessary rules and regulations that make this competition less interesting and less fun than the one from 2013/2014. I don’t know why it’s so hard for most to understand this.
I found the rules very clear. For someone who is versed in rules and laws and have friends in this field, you made quite a few assumptions on HLJs behalf that cannot be used in any court ruling. The categories were clearly meant to classify skill which in itself cannot be logically quantified. Completely scratch building a kit truly could disqualify an entry based on the rules but that is part of the contest challenge, to qualify and possibly win within the restrictions.
Rules are meant to keep things in order, principles give meaning to the rules and order. Sticking closely to every line, text and word will inevitably destroy any spirit of any competition, process or endeavor. So where’s the fun in that?
I am not taking HLJ to court. I am just noting the inconsistencies in the language and regulations of the competition.
I am noting it because as a participant of the previous competition these new rules did not apply. The inconsistencies arise from the fact that they just copied and pasted the same rules as the ones from 2013/2014 and then added new ones. If they had just written the new competition rules from scratch or alternatively not added any of these nonsensical rules it would have made it much clearer and more interesting.
I could honestly go at length about the ridiculousness of this rule that it has to be a kit that is sold or was once sold in the past at HLJ.
Not only does it hurt my personal ability to enter with kits that I find extremely interesting like those from Games Workshop, Reaper miniatures, and Privateer Press. It also stops some RIDICULOUS EXAMPLES like Gundam kits that HLJ currently does not, has never, and WILL NEVER sell in the future.
How do the limited edition and mail-order Gundam kits fit into this? Those are not sold on HLJ.com and have never been sold there. If you go Gentei Kits and check ANY of the Gundam models available there those are technically not eligible to enter in the competition.
This is why I call it a “racial purity test” because how do you judge if the “HGUC 1/144 RGM-89S Proto Stark Jegan” kit is allowed? What about the “MG 1/100 Tallgeese II & III”? Those kits have never been sold on HLJ.com and it will never be sold on HLJ.com because they do not do the limited edition mail-order kits. So, are Gentei Kits allowed or not allowed? How racially pure are Gentei Kits? Do we allow these in but not GW, PP, or Reaper minis? Why? Is it because it’s more similar to the kits that Bandai/Kotobukiya/Tamiya and other Asian companies make? Even though both are not sold on HLJ.com?
Again, if the intention was to make use buy from and use HLJ kits then they should have just said that. Why not just be open about it? Why not just come out and say it clearly. They want a completely closed off competition then they have that right. There is no need to be shy about it. I just don’t understand the sudden and dramatic change between the previous and this current competition.
Just use your brains. Think about this. You can come up with tons of different ridiculous scenarios where kits are and are not allowed.
* Gentei Kits official website. They sell the special edition mail-order kits that HLJ.com does not have.
http://genteikits.com/kits/
“I could honestly go at length about the ridiculousness of this rule that it has to be a kit that is sold or was once sold in the past at HLJ.”
It’s not ridiculous. It’s a perfectly reasonable rule.
“They want a completely closed off competition then they have that right.”
Yes they do. Does HLJ have to explain and list all their reasons for this rule? No.
“Just use your brains.”
Lol. And you wonder why people find your posts and comments abrasive and condescending. Use your brain.
The same goes to you kid. In fact, I can pretty much sum up all of my thoughts on you with a simple eat shit and die.
If you don’t have any problems with the rules then you can easily stay the hell out of the conversation.
Do you think HLJ and HLtv needs you here to defend them? Do you think that Syd and the crew need you here representing for them? You know, Syd is a big boy. I’m sure he and whoever is actually in charge can answer for themselves. Are you such a pure fanboy that you can’t help but elbow in on every conversation? Do you need attention on you at all times like a child? Don’t worry, you’ve got my attention.
I’ve raised legitimate questions about the rules and regulations of the competition. If you don’t have anything constructive to add then sit on your hands like a good little boy and let the adults talk. How about we wait till Syd or someone who’s in charge tells us what the final rules are? That is, if you can sit still and be quiet long enough to do allow them to formulate a response.